[00:00:00] 

Suresh Sundarababu: I'm not trying to change the world. I want to change the world I touch.

It is not an exclusive group, not anymore is not a club.

We really do care. I'm on record saying writing a check is the least of what I wanna be known for.

And I said, I, I love your check, like I said, but how, what can we do more?

They soft circled 60 million during that investment summit, right? And they, they pitched three minutes. 

Sometimes, you know, in the bubble we live in, it feels like impact is under attack. And certainly last year was tough, uh, without a doubt. But rest of the world, the innovation and policies are moving forward.

Yes, we have a budget. Yes, we have a goal for how much we want to grow by, but that's not the main point. The main point is if we spread the message, plant the seeds. Even today, we can get more people in. 

Andrew Kazlow: Welcome to the Diligent Observer, where we help angel investors see what most miss. I'm your host, Andrew, and every week we explore what works, what doesn't, and why through conversations with experienced startup investors and operators.

[00:01:00] My guest today is Suresh Sundarababu, Executive Director of SWAN Impact Network, a Multi Chapter Angel Group based in Austin, Dallas, and Houston, Texas. In this episode Suresh walks me through his journey from electrical engineering to leading an impact focused angel group, and he lays out a really thoughtful vision for evolving the angel investing model.

Together we explore his fast track experiment to streamline deal flow, his take on why 9 out of 10 startups fail, and the surprising connections that he made in Davos recently that could help shape SWAN's future, including the possibility of a multinational expansion. I'll hope you enjoy learning from Suresh as much as I did.

Suresh, thank you for being with me today.

Suresh Sundarababu: Thank you, Andrew. Good to be here.

Andrew Kazlow: So I have to start with my classic first question, and that is, what are you excited about right now?

Suresh Sundarababu: So 2026 is year two of me leading, uh, SWAN Impact Network. So first year [00:02:00] was very much a lot of learning. A lot of, a lot of forming thesis ideas about where we need to go for our mission. And this year I'm really excited about actually putting few in action. Uh, I'll, I'll give you an example. Uh, like all other angel networks, we have our own processes.

Uh, we follow, uh, our members are there for that, but sometimes we miss out on opportunities. So I'm, I'm toying with this idea of how do you fast track a company that is not through our normal process? That's one another example, again, I'll cut off, cut it off after a second example. But one of the things that I've been thinking about is we, each founder deals with each of the angel networks separately.

So I was actually having a conversation, another ecosystem, like-minded individual a couple days back, and I said, Hey, wouldn't it be cool if 2027 January, a company comes to us that we've known for a year and has been hardened, hardened the way we want throughout 2026. [00:03:00] They're pitching to a collective of us and we write the whole check.

Wouldn't that be cool to have as a goal so that the founder doesn't have to go raise any more funds and they can just keep doing those things? So. How far we get in 2026, I do not know, but the excitement is about how do you get the founders to success faster and trying a few things that'll put us through, through that path is what, what I'm excited about.

Andrew Kazlow: Okay. So I love these topics 'cause I think these are common issues that angel groups face and the founders run into. It brings up the question though to me. Where do you draw the line between an angel group and a venture capital fund?

Because a lot of what you're describing would be what funds would typically be expected to provide. You know, a good VC is gonna provide that support. Maybe they fill out more of the round. Versus an angel group or an angel investor as an individual, which would typically be a, you know, a smaller piece of the overall pie and, and more relational in nature.

Tell me, like, talk through that tension of what differentiates an angel group versus a, a [00:04:00] VC. 

Suresh Sundarababu: I'll, I'll set the context with saying I'm still learning, which I'm, which also means I may not be a 100% correct in what I say, and I get to say stupid and ask

Andrew Kazlow: stupid questions things around.

Suresh Sundarababu: So I'll put that context there. Um, I, I would still say, you know, the founders have to go through the angel networks before they get to VC.

Fortunately, or unfortunately in a lot of cases, unfortunately, because they have to hit about 15, 20 of us before they get anywhere. The difference in my mind again, uh, with my limited knowledge, the difference is not that always is are not like this, but we are, we are more the kinder, gentler version of the next round of investment.

Um, and especially at SWAN and with Impact Networks. We really do care. I, I, I, I'm on record saying writing a check is the least of what I wanna be known for. So if we can give the founder the check they need, which is the most basic thing they need, but also along with that, give a [00:05:00] collective 10x group effective time and talent as well.

My question is what are the opportunities there and why is it not happening? And it all started from, you know, you commonly hear, and I do, 9 out of 10 companies fail. Why? One of the stupid questions I ask is, why, and what does failure mean? If you tell me that every company should be a unicorn, sure, 9 outta 10 are probably not going to be, but we're trying to get them to 10 million.

Before the next next round happens, or next exit happens. So why can't we? So that's the, that's the thesis I'm operating on. Clearly, I'm not the first one, probably to think that way. Clearly there are challenges, but like-minded people can get together and change things and that's the hope and that's the excitement.

So you talked about fast tracking and what if we could write the whole check? What are some of the like, like why doesn't that happen today? I mean, I could sit here and describe to you dozens of groups that are married to their [00:06:00] process and that serve exist to serve their process and not the other way around.

Which is funny because it, it should be the other way. You know, you, you think a process exists to serve

the interests of the members in the group. And so when there's a great deal that doesn't fit, I mean, this is just such a common scenario. You, you're as a, as a network leader, you face this challenge of, okay, do I break the process that I built to look at this interesting opportunity or pass because it doesn't fit the exact workflow?

How do you guys think about that tension, that SWAN.

So that we haven't changed it yet. We are going, actually, tomorrow is our pitch night. And I'm gonna present one as a pilot opportunity to say, Hey, what, what is, what is the, what is the pulse of the membership to go through this? And I expect not great results because people are comfortable with what we do, right.

What we do, but why hasn't happened before? It's a, it is a really good question. I, I can't put my finger on it other than to say. Again, most of these clubs started as, as a club. A few [00:07:00] people retired and, uh, wanted to do something. So it, it revolves around its own, uh, timelines and processes, and everybody gets really comfortable with it.

Maybe there's a scarcity mentality of, if, if I write a check, it's not your check. From my perspective, I don't care. The founder success is the most important thing, and, and the, the hope that I'm getting is when, when you talk to a few people, nobody disagrees. So what you need is two or three people that are like-minded that have the same passion to go our, our stupidity.

Whichever way you want to go look at it to say "Why not?" And, and, and, and we will. If nothing else, we'll learn. Here's why it is so important. It's an aging old, antiquated system angel, angel investing is. If we don't, because we are necessary evil right now, it will get disrupted. That's the way the world works.

It has happened so far, it's gonna get disrupted. Why not disrupt ourselves [00:08:00] now a year from now, we should talk and see how the, how it actually went and what did I learn from it? Uh, and, and did I get really disillusioned by it? But I don't, I think there's an opportunity and, and I'm ex I, I really want to go give it a try.

I don't expect it to be successful first, but I don't see any big blockers that says, why can't we move down this path?

Andrew Kazlow: Okay, so I wanna hear more about that maybe before we get into your vision for the evolution that's required in the angel space. If you could walk me through, you know, your journey as an angel investor. I know you've been a part of SWAN for a while, and I, I love your story because it's, uh, just, it feels like so, you know, common and that you, you know, you raise your hand once and then you raise your hand again, and then you raise your hand again and all of a sudden you're running the thing.

So walk me through, uh, your journey at at SWAN.

Suresh Sundarababu: It started nine years back, uh, when I joined SWAN. So it really started a little bit before, um, to say that I would've set the context to say about 13 [00:09:00] years back. Uh, I left, uh, the company I was working for. I came home to my wife and said, um, I don't want a job. I don't know what that means.

And I took six months off. And, and what that meant was I've come a long way as myself from India, first to here, and I wrote a purpose for myself, which is I'm not trying to change the world. I want to change the world I touch. And that led to how do I live that purpose? And somebody introduced SWAN and when I went and, uh, looked at SWAN, it felt like it can expand the world, like touch. Now, I will tell you, when it said angel investor, even though I could be accredited and all that good stuff, right? I felt like an imposter. Angel? Me? What? Uh, 'cause I think the word is a misnomer in, in, in my opinion, because it, it has this connotation of somebody who's made it, whatever, made it means and can write big checks.

It's not really the case every single time. So I had, for the longest time, I, I, [00:10:00] I was there for the impact. Uh, I joined 9 years back, but for the longest time I didn't think I'm the one writing checks and supporting these companies. And what I did was I just got involved because my purpose was so strong.

I was, I, I could feel, you could feel it when the companies that come to us are all impact-based and certainly companies speak, uh, to you personally for some type of impact that you care about. And then you just get involved in it and, and. I, like you said, I raised my hand for the first, the leading a deal memo, 

Andrew Kazlow: The biggest mistake you could have made. said, sign me up. And they said, 

what else, what else can we have you do to help us?

Suresh Sundarababu: Co-led it volunteered, and then I, I, I loved it. I, I, I loved intellectual conversations. I've always been around disruption, always about around innovation. Now led startups, it was natural, um, uh, with a business mind, and then of course, started writing a little bit of checks.

Uh, found that even within impact spaces, I mean, part of our mission is to support underserved founders. So I [00:11:00] I, I, I could see even with those who are like-minded. Those got lesser, uh, support. So I gravitated towards leading more of those deal memos. So I was very active. So then, then they said, Hey, you should be on the board.

So this was about two, two and a half years back or so. I'm like, makes sense. Uh, I, what I did not know was Bob Bridge, the founder at that time. I given the boat two years to retire. Uh, I think a year, year and a half later, they tapped me. And for a while I was like, I, I always told my wife for five, six years, I'm gonna, I just want to do good, which probably meant not corporate.

And then when they tapped me, I had to think for a little bit and few people had to slap my head to go, this is the organization for your purpose, which then became very evident once I took it over. So it's a, it's an unusual journey, that my background is not investment. I have a master's in Electrical Engineering and different business leadership roles.

You will not think of me as the most ideal fit, but for SWAN. Because of the purpose. It is a very much an [00:12:00] ideal fit for me and vice versa. And, and the last year I can, after the last year, I can tell you that is true because now we have some proof of that.

Andrew Kazlow: Okay, so you've been a part of the group for about nine years. Uh, the last two in a board capacity and then the last year or so in, uh, this Executive Director role, and you're now in your second year, so you've got a pretty thoughtful vision around what's broken in the angel ecosystem and some of the changes that are necessary for angel investors of today and tomorrow to be effective. I'd love if you could walk me through this framework and, and help me understand what, what it means.

Suresh Sundarababu: I, I'll tell you in this frame, in this frame, right, in this, the first thing that I had to do as I was learning was to form few thesis points. Um, and, and there were three and, and two are founder related, so from the outcome perspective, and one was network related. The, the founder related. The first one was, again, we, we, I, I mentioned a little bit.

Uh, angel networks are all rotate [00:13:00] in their own little world, uh, have our own little processes, uh, slow, old, antiquated, um, and not really set up to help the founders. Fundamentally, uh, none of us write even in good times, big enough checks for them to complete our own. Very rarely do we do and they have to hit all of us before they get anywhere.

So that's first specific thing that needs to change. And the way I look at it is, what does 2030 SWAN look like and how do we dig towards that? And I'll come back to that in a minute and give you some of my thoughts. Uh, second is, what I've seen founders fail at is they're good at a couple of things.

They're not good at a lot of things, but even if they get the money, then the hiring they do, which is could be family and friends, something changes, or the strategy change that happens. The founder of a startup is the loneliest position period, because they have to pretend and [00:14:00] they cannot be themselves with anybody.

So the support system they have is either, there are a lot more mistakes that happen they can't afford to, or they don't have it. So they failed not because of the idea, not 'cause of the tenacity, uh, because of that. So, and the VCs, like you said, VCs do that. They have a support system that comes in and says, here's the formula.

And, and I'm not talking about that, but what about if we have an ecosystem of partners? So just by coming to SWAN, whether you get funded or not, you have an ecosystem of partners that understand startups and what they can afford, willing to grow with them and grow their business with them, and then can help the founders not make those mistakes.

What does that look like? So that's the second thing that has to change. The third thing is, we talked a little bit about this. Angels right, who, who are angels? Uh, the next generation, the younger generation, uh, want to have impact a lot more. I hear this when I talk to family offices that the, the G2's are asking more and more about impact investments [00:15:00] and uh, they don't know we exist and we don't know they exist.

So how do we expand this? We already democratized, uh, investment by saying, you can write as lows, 5,000. We'll pull it together and invest. So there's a lot more that can afford it, that actually care about it versus just making money. So how do we change that paradigm? So the thing, there are plenty of process related things that needs to change.

Like we talked about, like the slowness of it. How do we be more nimble? A lot of it is voluntary. Budgets are very small. But fundamentally, I look at changes that need to happen is how does it serve the mission much faster? So I've told you our mission is equal impact and returns equally. And without a doubt in 10 years, we have impacted, we have some returns, but both are small "I" and small "R". I, I'm not a founder by the way. Uh, founders are amazing, intelligent people, a little bit crazy to do what they do, but [00:16:00] I scale businesses, that's what I do. So my mentality is about, I don't want, we can continue plugging along with small "I" and small "R" but to me, to me that is, that's not accomplish the miss mission.

So to me, I go back to. Those three, I think, uh, it started as a thesis throughout last year. Nothing has changed my mind on that is not main thing to figure out how to do to impact the mission. Uh, and if we can successfully pivot towards that in the next five years, we'll stay relevant and get to where we need to get to.

Andrew Kazlow: So I, I want to double click more. I'd like to talk about all three points, but this third one in particular around the evolving face of like, who is an investor. I, I think it's a really interesting point. My experience has been that most investors wouldn't call themselves angel investors. They just call themselves investors and they don't actually gravitate towards the word angel. In fact, some kind of move away from it. And so I, [00:17:00] I like your. I have seen a lot of, uh, positive alignment with your concept that the word angel investors is a misnomer, because I think most of us just think of ourselves as investors. To say more about this evolution of the face of, you know, tomorrow's angel investor that you're seeing this, uh, appetite from, you know, the younger generation to get involved at an earlier age to start making this impact.

Like, just say more about what that third bullet point means to you.

Suresh Sundarababu: I, I'll start with the learnings, right? So the, the thing that I consistently heard about SWAN when, when we invite guests over, uh, is like, wow, that your your group doesn't look like an investment group. Uh, I'm like, okay. It looks like an angel group. What, what, what do you mean? There's a lot more diversity, lot more women I've heard.

I mean, literally women guests have come and said, I didn't expect that many women. Uh, which by the way, uh, we take for granted. Bob Bridge, when he founded it, was very particular about how to build it. But, uh, I, it was, was very eyeopening to go, [00:18:00] okay, we are different. And then that is our strength. Which then led to, then I started mingling with a lot of different groups, and you could tell that that diversity is not there.

So we have two groups, two, two member groups. One is the angels uh, who can write checks, uh, so they can give time, talent, and treasure. The second group is called associates, who can give time and talent, but can't write checks yet or wanna learn before they write check. So I, we, I literally right now have members from 20.

I have a freshman in college as an, as a as an associate to 75 plus 77 plus, right? So going back to your question within that context of learning, right? That is, so why can't we have a continuum from 20 to 80 plus where you could start with, it's not just about writing a check. They can give their time and talent and learn.

So now you're seeding your tomorrow's angels. And then angels, you start looking at and [00:19:00] going and, and the, and the, the way we are growing right now is really through network. I know five people, you know, five people. They all care about something. Hey, let's get together and talk about what we're doing, and that is how we are growing and that space can expand as well.

And then one of the things that we start seeing and we hear is this aging out of angels, right? When they get to a certain age. And, and, and we don't like the term aging out because there's still legacy giving to ha to be had. So there's so many ways they can continue, continue making an impact even after they're not here.

So the only reason I believe that that somebody at 20 don't think of angel investing is, they don't know that it is something they need to think about. So they come in and contribute and start going, okay, now we have a pipeline. Now what do we do about today? So then we go and we are, we are in places.

We are everywhere, right? That's why we, we are, SWAN has been a well kept secret. Uh, now, wherever we are, we are trying to go and talk about not, we are not recruiting, we are just saying, here's who [00:20:00] we are and if you care about it, let's talk. And what we see is very much, a lot more of them going, yes, we care.

I did not know this was an option. I did not know I could invest this low and be part of it and be accredited and do these things. So I think it's education of it. Uh, and, and hopefully this, these are the type of things that we talk about that gets the message out, right? Yes, we have a budget.

Yes, we have a goal for how much we want to grow by, but that's not the main point. The main point is if we spread the message, plant the seeds. Even today, we can get more people in. And, and in the last year for sure, the growth has been what I would call more couples, more diverse, uh, uh, younger group. Uh, there has been some older group as well.

Uh, so the, the associate growth has been that way. The angel growth has been that way. And so I come back to we just need to get the message. I mean, all of us, by the way, this is not just about impact, impact investment 'cause I don't care. So we have a specific thesis. [00:21:00] We only see a subset of the startups, but every startup that goes to us go to every angel group, right?

And every angel group, if they can just get more people interested in their thesis, the foundry gets to success. So it's just about getting the message out. To say it is not an exclusive group, not anymore is not a club everybody and anybody at a set, as long as the IRS is met, uh, can be, and you don't have to invest immediately.

That's what I tell people. Come get involved, absorb, get, give your time and talent and then you'll learn and you will do it yourself. I'll add one more point. Uh, I always tell people we have, we have a, we have a yearly donation we have for the angels. That's about it. We don't set, I don't set the number of hours you need to contribute or the amount of check you need to write.

'Cause my point is, you are with us because you care. Who am I to tell you how much you need to care by you? Eventually, if you really do care, you'll do the right thing [00:22:00] for you. So that's the, the, the evangelization of the message. It's not a club. You are part of it. Here are the basic minimum rules, but even if you can't meet the rules, come and give time and talent, and eventually you may be.

Andrew Kazlow: Suresh, this is one of my favorite things about the angel space, is that like every angel group has some unique special reason, reason to gather, and it's never half-hearted. You know, like nobody in that room is just casually hanging out. Like there's always such intentionality, and I use, maybe use the word passion thoughtfully, but I feel like it's accurate, right?

This is, this is often something that these folks are doing in their free time because it's exciting to them, and it's one of my favorite things about this space more widely is that that reason is so meaningful for each group. And here, hearing SWAN Impact and just the, the centrality of that mission, uh, is super exciting to me.

Suresh Sundarababu: Let me add [00:23:00] you, you reminded me I need to add, which will be not wrong, not right of me not to add, because the good thing about the way angel groups work is there's a social aspect to it, right? They, they do like being together with those group of people. I think most of angel groups do, like you just talked about for a reason, whatever the reasons are.

So we can't lose that. And I don't think you, we need to, at least so far the way we've grown, it doesn't feel like we lost it. Uh, but that's an important point to make. Like it's not, it's not all bad. I don't want it to come across as angel groups are bad. It's not. It's an, it's, it's, it's necessary. And there's a lot of work that is happening, a lot of effort while work of passion that goes in because none of us, none of us are doing it operationally for the money.

Uh, so we, I don't want to come across as. Uh, everything is bad, but when the game changes, scaling changes the game. Uh, when, when the game changes, then you need to look at, other than the core, which you keep, you break up everything and try to try to be better.

Andrew Kazlow: So is this fast track [00:24:00] experiment that you referenced, sort of a first step at testing, how do we be more nimble? How do we be more, um, responsive

to kinda the modern environment to that first point

that you mentioned? 

Suresh Sundarababu: It is the first step of, so that's a direct goal. It's a, it's coming from a, one of the, one of the thesis is, hey, it should come from a trusted partner, uh, who has same thesis, uh, and or, or a member who has invested in and known them for a while. So the main, yes, the immediate goal is can we, can we introduce a process where we can invest in companies that we normally would've, would not have seen because of our, of our way?

We are the, the secondary goal is how, how much is, are our members thinking about different than being the same? And also seeding the fact, hey, we need to be different, right? So I look at it at two different goals. So one goal is, yes, it'll be great, and it may be completely, everybody will go, ah, man, I, we like our process, we like our own due diligence.

And not nothing may happen with that one, but I've seeded it

Hmm.

[00:25:00] Next time. But then I can ask the question beyond the process, what else would you like to see? So the next time around, I'm talking to trust the network. I know, okay, that can be so I don't. There is not a, the fact that there's gonna be a slide on it tomorrow is a success for tomorrow.

Uh, but that seeds both the process agility and also the, the group agility to think differently than what we always done.

Andrew Kazlow: I love it. Well, we'll certainly have to check back in a year from now and, uh, hear, hear how it's going. Uh.

I I also wanted to follow up on the second point that you mentioned, which was that angel groups aren't well set up to, like help founders be successful, uh, that founders lack the resources to be successful and angel groups often aren't able to fill in those gaps.

I feel like that's an observation that I would totally agree with. Most angel groups are structurally designed to be very bare bones and offer limited resources. You know, they're aggregating investors and founders. They might be a good fit for one [00:26:00] another, but beyond the basic operations to fulfill that goal, there's very limited support function. Say more about how you envision the ecosystem evolving and the future of angel investing changing beyond that. Do you see that change happening at the angel group level, or is this more of a structural support for investors to be able to get involved personally to support founders?

Suresh Sundarababu: So I'll start with the thesis and I'll give you an example, uh, of, of the first step. Um, the thesis is, let's say the founders, founders are usually good at product, right? Technology, uh, and sometimes they're good at business and selling. Sometimes they're not, but. If you'll take anything else. Uh, strategy, customer support, uh, HR, et cetera.

So legal, they're not good at it. Uh, and they've muddled through it through friends and family or somewhere somebody said it. So why can't we find organizations? This is where it started. Why can't we find organizations that do help those startups? [00:27:00] Because the biggest problem that they don't go to these organizations is, I can't afford 'em.

So can we find a group on network? That says, I understand you as a startup and I'm set up to help you as a startup, and I'm gonna grow with you in the meantime, by the way, they also, because of their partner, they can sponsor us as well, so that way it's a win, win, win because then we can scale a little bit too.

So how would that look like was the thesis? The reason it started was we had, uh, I won't name names, but we had a legal firm that are, that is a partner of us and, and generously written us a check over the last 5, 6, 7 years. So when I first took over, I, I had a conversation to say, Hey, what do, I would love the check.

Thank you. Uh, but what do you get out of it? Nothing really. They love being part of it. They, these are the companies, they're clean tech specifically, and life sciences, specifically startups. These are the type of companies we look at. So we can't, we kind of get a feel for it. And I said, I, I love your check, like I said, but how, what can we do more?

So, so I have 15 to 70 companies that come through us every quarter. [00:28:00] We only do two to three, two to four to pitch night. We only on average fund two, there's another 50 to 60 that don't get help. How can we? So with this group, we said okay. They're like, look, I'm happy to give 30-minute free time. Ask the lawyer any question you want to anybody and, and if the companies go through next level portfolio will give, will up the up the time.

So as an example, um, there was a, there's a guy in San Antonio in a, in a ranch with a cool idea about wind turbines. Uh, he applied to us, uh, way early, way early at, at concept stage. But I, I tell the founders if they want to take me up as long as they can get on my schedule.

Time to help them think through things. And we, we meet monthly and one of the, one of the months he was talking about legal structure, et cetera, et cetera. And I said, Hey, we have a partner. No obligation, talk to him. And then I just had a call two days back, this is now months later, and he was talking about how

he was thinking about adding on a partner. They're an LLC. [00:29:00] And the, and the law, law firm, law firm, uh, person talked them out of it because, look, you're too early to do it. You can do it, but you're gonna spend the same amount of money when you convert to C Corp. And why would you wanna do that? So to me, in that example is one, there was a lot of free time first.

Clearly that turned into some kind of business for the partner. Clearly save money for the founder and time for the founder, and, and that gives me the basis to say the thesis can be, can happen. And by the way, I found plenty of HR firms that are about early stage startups, accounting firms that are about early stage startups, fractional CMO, CFOs, executive coaches.

Now the problem is to bring 'em all together. I still haven't done that part. But they're there. And, and I have at least one success story of a firm that has been giving us check and would've happily given us just checks, by the way, and we would've happily taken that. But I, [00:30:00] I, I don't want, my mission is not for our budget to grow.

You know, our, our mission is exactly what I just told you before. If that doesn't happen, impact is, and return is just a dream. So this, say, say, if you fast forward, say a couple of years, ideal cases. This particular company grows to an, to an stage where, uh, they are fundable by angel groups. We now know two or three groups.

They're structured the right way because of partnerships, and we fund them and they go be successful. That'll be why not, right? Why, why can't we? So that's the, that's the second point that I made about ecosystem. I'll, I'll, I'll give you one more example. This I've seen particularly again and again. I have a couple of friends who are executive coaches, so they, because of the relationship, they said, we'll give you free time with, with your founders.

We've done it with about three, no, two founders, I'm sorry. Uh, founders are, were like ecstatic and, and the executive coaches had a lot of fulfillment out of it too. Now I [00:31:00] need to figure out how to make that a business proposition for them and how to expand it. But the need is very clearly established.

And there are ecosystem partners that have this as the business model. Now, how do you bring it all together? It shouldn't be that hard, but how do you bring it all together? Is the, is the, uh, work in front?

Andrew Kazlow: Suresh, I think this is a fascinating observation that I would posit. Holds true across just about every angel group and that is that angel groups represent this really unique kind of coalescing of like raw resources that are all super valuable in isolation, but if you stick 'em together in this pot of of angel group, like there's just such rich relational connection that's uniquely focused on this investing moment. And it feels to me like some of the lowest hanging fruit to many angel groups is simply to be thoughtful and systematic about organizing and stitching together those raw resources. It's like, you know, you're [00:32:00] standing there and there's gold laying around you, and you just have to pick it up and put it in a format that's more useful and able to be processed by the rest of the community.

It it, that's sort of this image that I have as you're talking, just like all these great resources

sitting there just waiting to be smooshed together and, and captured in a usable format.

Suresh Sundarababu: And the only reason I believe it's not been done is again, it's not a common thing. Uh, you know, in, in, in disruption, which is what I've been part of, is it's always the common thing that needs to be disrupted because it is the way it has always been is the reason why it doesn't change. And then you get to, and you are, and you just need somebody stupidly naive enough to go, I don't accept that.

I, I'm gonna do something about it. And, and maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't, but you progress it further, right?

Andrew Kazlow: Yeah, it seems like these relational networks are some of the, the competitive moat or the special sauce, right, for each community is that convalescence of a unique blend of people around that thesis. Like that is in and of itself, just by the nature of the convening activity, [00:33:00] super valuable and distinctive and hard to replicate all the things that make something defensible and unique. It's fascinating.

Okay, so I, I have to ask, because you are, it seems to be aggressively positioning SWAN , uh, in front of this younger, more, uh, intentional investor community, and one of the ways that I see you doing that is I think you just got back from a trip to Switzerland. So I'd love for you to just share a little bit more about, uh, that what, what you saw, why you guys sponsored that.

I saw your logo up next to Andreessen and other cool partners. So it was fun to see. Uh, tell me about the trip to Davos.

Suresh Sundarababu: It is, uh, surreal for sure. Uh, like we are a, we are a small network out here and Davos was, would not have been in even in the map. Uh, so, so to give a little bit of background about it, it was a investment summit, uh, organized by a group outta London, which brings family offices and wealth funds together and

puts on a summit and including, brings about 10 to 12 impact [00:34:00] startups to pitch, uh, to raise money. And they had found me and asked me if I wa if I wanna be a judge on the panel. Um, and that's what, that's what, uh, that's what brought me there. So we didn't sponsor the event, we were invited to the event. So just to 

Even better. 

We are, we are minuscule budget wise to sponsor something in World Economic Forum. We're not on the main stage. Let me also put that the World Congress is its own thing and there's a whole bunch of, uh, uh, events that happen around it. Uh, this is one of those, uh, and that was, was eye-opening. Um, in the sense there's so many ideas

to make something the world better, running around with so much money running around and trying to figure out, uh, how both of them can be matched and every country that you can think of, every organization. So India House, US House, uh, climate hub, a female, caution, any, anywhere, Nvidia, so you can think of anything.

They're all there. [00:35:00] Uh, and it's truly a unique. I, I found it. I was definitely a rookie, right? There's a lot of things that I would do differently, but for, for me, the, the amount of innovation, energy and impact, energy and people that can make it happen. We're all there. Um, I'll, I'll, I'll give you a couple of, uh, couple of pointers and that I took.

One is. Sometimes, you know, in the bubble we live in, it feels like impact is under attack. And certainly last year was tough, uh, without a doubt. Uh, but rest of the world, the innovation and policies are moving forward. Uh, definitely fast, faster, it feels like there was, there was loan out of the tall companies, I believe was from outside the US, the ones that pitched, uh, successful and they're raising the next rounds.

So to me it, it [00:36:00] feels like, again, I go back to what are the opportunities we're missing outside of US and how can we be beyond this little bubble? And second is gives you hope that, you know, the fact innovation has been set out. It's not going backwards. I always believe that even in tough times, a few of us need to kind of double down and keep moving. Uh, but it's, it's not going backwards. And, and that's a lot of money there. There's, I mean, that tall companies pitched and the, and the results that I heard was they soft circled 60 million during that investment summit, right? And they, they pitched three minutes. By the way, soft circle still means you have to go through the due diligence and get the money and everything else, but even if you only get 20, they pitch three.

Each company pitched three minutes. So my resolve outta that was. So my bubble was expanding from just, just Austin, few, few of my Austin, Dallas, Houston, and a few of the states that we are in to what does bigger ecosystem look like? The worldwide, right? I don't know [00:37:00] where that's gonna go. It's just two weeks in and, and, uh, we are very small, but the eye opening effect was idea.

If you bring the right groups of people together, things will happen.

Andrew Kazlow: I mean, this is the power of convening, right? Getting people that care about a topic in the room together. It's just magic. It magic happens. Simple thing. I love this.

What's like one or two of the ideas you're gonna explore? With SWAN that came out of that, like, you know, continue on this, this train for me.

Suresh Sundarababu: Yeah, so the, the one I didn't even know that was going to happen, the idea that came out of it was SWAN Europe, right. Again, I do not know where it's gonna go. I do not know if SWAN Europe is gonna ever happen, but it always starts with a, with a thought, right? It's, it's that thought. It may not be a or organization by itself, it may be partnering with somebody, but just like the fast track struck process here, what are the opportunities we are missing out there and how do we do it?

The only reason we haven't done it, and we only do US and Canada is, that's the only thing we figured out legally in tax structure wise, how to do it. Uh, and we are [00:38:00] small in that sense. Right. So what is, so I'll just put that thought a year from now. We'll, we'll pick that up again. So what is, what is SWAN Europe?

I didn't even think that was a thought that's gonna come out of that. The, one of the, one of my main, uh, reasons for saying yes, other than the fact it's Davos and you gotta be here, you gotta be there when invited. Um, is this is about family offices coming together and I've been curious about family offices.

Fifteen months back, I didn't know what a family office was. I'll be i'll, I'll be honest. Uh, but one of the things I learned, uh, meeting with them is they have mentioned consistently the next generation, the G2s, as they call them, are consistently asking them about how is our investment going through a, through a towards impact.

And that family office structure has not been traditionally set up to do that. So one of the family offices up in Dallas, we were talking to them and he said, I am kind of trying to figure that out. And we only have a small, uh, money set aside for [00:39:00] impact investment. It's only 15 million a year, right? So two things.

One, uh, it's becoming more relevant. Second, it is enormous money, actually three things. Third, they don't have a good way of figuring out which ones they are. And that's the business we are in. So my, to me, it went back to the first point I made about building an ecosystem, giving 10x the effect for the founders.

So my curiosity was, what does that look like worldwide? And, and hopefully, and as in any event, the few connections you make is probably where the biggest benefit of it is. And, and I think I made a couple of connections that I want to explore to see. So 2027 January, if I can have a family office co-investing with us in a deal, they, they can probably write the whole check, right?

The goal that we had. Right? So how does that look? And then another big goal is, uh, again, what does SWAN Europe look like? I mean, I, it's, it's a thought, but I always, in, in, throughout my life, you, you start with a thought, a seed. Then you let it, uh, you, [00:40:00] you, you, you culture it, you drive it, but you let it go where it can go and things just open up when, when you start that way.

So those, those would be my two main focus points out of that. Beyond the fact that the halo effect of being in Davos has been amazing for SWAN, even though we were nowhere close to the main stage. But yes.

Andrew Kazlow: Oh, that's incredible. Well, I love this and I, I think it also speaks to the value of just showing up. You know, like, like every angel group has some kind of affinity or affiliation or thing that they are, have a, have a flag in the sand focused on, and the simple act of being present, having your name on the banner at the event. Right. Associating with the kinds of people in the kinds of companies that are active in your space. I just think that's so important. And, you know, for anybody listening, like the, the value of just showing up and who knows who you meet has so much of a, [00:41:00] of a potential upside impact,

you know, compared to the cost.

Uh, so I love that. Suresh, any final thoughts for uh, me for our listeners takeaways that you'd leave? On the subject of impact investing and, you know, as you settle into your role here at SWAN and, and think about the future of the angel investing world.

Suresh Sundarababu: I, I will, I'll say, I'll probably say a couple of things. One is, uh, you know, nobody in their logical mind will invest in a startup early stage startup. It's, it's very much a hard decision regardless of whether it's impact or not. So the community that that actually exists to do it, whether you're doing it for impact, that just for return is an amazing community, by the way.

So let's, let's state that. And I think that, and it proves out, the returns prove out lots of, lots of failures, lots of resilience you need. So to that community that, what I would like to say is. How much more effective can it be if we do it together versus it's, it's mine or [00:42:00] yours. And I don't think they think that way.

By the way, I don't think any organization goes, uh, I'm gonna invest. It's mine. Mine, mine kept growing, so you need to be part of me. I don't think most of them that way, but I don't think it's a conscious thought that we should do it together versus alone. Uh, because it's not a competition. The founder is getting to success is not a competition, whether you did or I did.

So that's, that's, that's one thought. Let's open up to how can we do it together? And it's only takes a few of us, if you can. If a few of us get together and make it successful, everybody else will follow. The second is, uh, specifically for SWAN. Those who are listening, I'll go back to if you two points, if you care about more than just making money.

And making money is important for us too, by the way, equally, but more than just that. And if you have time, talent, and treasure, or just time and talent to give, check us out. We are at a minimum, we're a good group of people with good dinner every four, every

Andrew Kazlow: three months, and good business.

Suresh Sundarababu: But check us out. So those will be the two things [00:43:00] I'll tell your viewers.

Andrew Kazlow: Fantastic. Well, Suresh, thank you for the time today. It was a pleasure to learn about you, your story, and um, what's happening at SWAN. We will certainly make a point to check in a year or so from now and, and hear how this, uh, set of bets is going.

Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure talking to you, Andrew

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