Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The hit rate for the companies that pitch and then get funded for us is over 70%. Faith-driven investing style is just uh growing by leaps and bounds. Those companies that are faith-led have better returns than those that don't.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Welcome to the Diligent Observer, where we help angel investors see what most miss. I'm your host, Andrew, and every week we explore what works, what doesn't, and why through conversations with experienced startup investors and operators. My guest today is Will Thompson, Air Force veteran, Harvard MBA, and co-founder of Ambassadors Impact Network, a Dallas-based investor group that has deployed over $27 million into gospel advancing companies and funds since 2018. In this episode, Will walks me through how Ambassadors evaluate deals through two completely separate scorecards. One for financial returns and one for spiritual integration. And why keeping these scores distinct has been so foundational to serving their members well over the last eight years. We also explore how ambassadors evolved from funding only operating companies to putting roughly half of their members' capital into fund structures, why the group's hit rate sits above 70%, which by the way is almost three times the national average of 24%, and how Will thinks about the nuances of private investing through a Christian lens. I hope you enjoy learning from Will as much as I did. Well, thanks for having me. I'm excited. Excited to talk. Good. Well, this one is long overdue. I've been thrilled to have this on the calendar for a while now. And I have to start with my favorite classic first question, which is what are you excited about right

The growth of faith-driven investing

SPEAKER_01 1:48

now?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I've been excited about this, uh, but what I'm excited about now is um just the growth of this faith-driven investing ecosystem. So it's uh it's been fascinating to see how it's grown since early 2012. I heard a pitch from a company that was underwriting Christian founders and um operators. And I'm invested in that company now, but they manage over a billion dollars. And it was their first fund in 2012, and that's Sovereign's

Ambassadors’ 70%+ hit rate

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Capital. And then they're increasingly, there, there are more and more ETFs that are growing in the space. And so I would say that this uh faith-driven or even non-financial uh investing style is just uh growing by leaps and bounds. And so that's been really fun. The the other thing, if I if you'll afford me uh two favorite things or or exciting things, is the hit rate for the companies that pitch and then get funded for us is over 70%. And to me, that is heartwarming because I really want to honor the founders and just the time that they put in into fundraising, but also our members, because they come to the meetings, they want to hear pitches that they genuinely find interesting. And so uh for me, I just like to serve both sides of that ecosystem. And so that's really fun as well. So that's what you got. You

The broader faith-driven investing ecosystem

SPEAKER_00 3:09

got a twofer.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

That's fantastic. Well, I want to come back to to both of those. Maybe to start uh, tell me um double-click for me on I guess Will's mental map of like the faith forward and of startup investing ecosystem. This is a really interesting theme, one that I personally get excited about, and I know a lot of others do too. So, like, where where do you see pockets of energy and investment in this particular lens of startup investing, which would be distinct from charitable capital and and donation-based opportunities typically? I know there's some nuance there, but uh give walk me through like Will's mental map of the faith forward kind of startup ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah, so I I think you're hitting at that uh non-financial outcome that uh that that I'm after, that I would argue a lot of us are after, right? When we give charitably, we give to causes um that alleviate uh homelessness or uh reduce poverty or whatever the case may be, or um serve an underserved group of people who've maybe did been disenfranchised. And so we have that on the nonprofit side. I would say increasingly on the for-profit side, there has been underwriting for um environmental causes, which of course has been very popular. Um, and then increasingly there are companies which are really trying to serve their employees in a unique way, in a way that's sacrificial. And so that's what I see in this space where you've got these um founders who are motivated by their faith, they're serving their staff, and they also are accomplishing these social, socially impactful um goals. And so what what I see is more and more founders are motivated by something that's not just raw financial growth, but they're integrating who they are into the business and they're searching for these outcomes. I can tell you why that's important to me. And you know, personally, I just have been impacted by my faith in a way. I've been impacted by those who follow the teachings of Jesus and they've lived them out, which is an important uh criteria. And when that's happened, it's been a blessing to me. So our hope is that we're underwriting those founders who are truly um impactful to their own employees and to the people that they serve.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Will, I'd love to hear more about how your investor community evolved. I always find it fun to hear sort of the origin story around any investor group, right? Every every investor community has some reason for gathering, some unique lens on what kind of stuff that they're focused on. And I think this one in particular is really fascinating. So I'd love to hear maybe a little bit more about the origin story. You know, you mentioned back in 2012 first getting involved, and then um now this ecosystem being much more robust. Tell me the story of how you guys got started.

Why Ambassadors Impact Network started

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, so you know, background in the Air Force, I got to see chaplains at work, and then I uh spent some time in private equity. I got to see um leaders of larger businesses shape the culture that they were involved in, and I saw corporate chaplains there within those companies, and then I got to serve with uh marketplace chaplains, and it was all of those steps along the way helped me understand that there's uh a need to um serve employees well through um this Christian framework. So we did a landscape study in 2018. I said, well, let me find the group that's underwriting these types of leaders, and we found uh a number of them that were ideologically oriented, um, that were uh serving women founders, uh LGBTQ, um, minority founders, and four uh religious groups, but none of them were Christian. And so that's that was the motivation to uh start. We noticed that there was a gap in the ecosystem. We also noticed that uh Christian founders who wanted to find someone who um would pray with them, for example, or talk to them about how to bless their employees through a biblical lens, really didn't have a place to go and get funded on a regular basis, like an angel network. And so that was a lot of the motivation for us is to go ahead and create that. The other thing, as I mentioned earlier on, there is a lot of demand from Christian investors to allocate their capital into this space. And so why not have an angel group that would allow them to do that? So uh, and then you know, finally, this is what I was doing anyway. And I started investing in uh the first company for me, it was a Haitian block building company in 2012. Um, they were helping people escape some of the trappings of voodoo, and uh to me that was so compelling. And um, it was an entrepreneur who uh had this company that was building large, um basically very secure blocks after the 2010 earthquake, and he was helping um people build homes that were safe, and I thought, man, this is the right kind of guy I want to underwrite. So over time I started investing in more and more of those companies, and uh, and then again, after we found that there was no angel group doing this, that's when we founded Ambassadors Impact Network.

Why Will chose to build an investor group

SPEAKER_00 8:31

And what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 8:32

I mean, uh, take me a level deeper into those conversations because I I imagine you were like, okay, well, how do we do this in more of a community sense? Like, I how did I guess how did you get to the conclusion that I bet there's other people out there that would be interested in doing this with us? Let's start a group. Like, how did that decision come about? Because you could have just kept doing this in independently forever, and yet you chose to build a group, which is pretty hard work. I I've been in the trenches with a lot of angel groups, I know how much work it is to get these things started. What was like the what was that like, I guess, for you guys?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

There were a couple of motivations. Personally, for me, it's better to do things in a group setting. Number one, I'm learning from others, but one of the motivations I have is just to serve other people. And so, in a way, by putting a structure in around me where I could serve other people, they're paying dues to um the angel group, in our case, at 501c6 nonprofit. Um it it allows me, I guess, the motivation or inspires me to serve them, due diligence better, follow up better. It creates a structure around me. So that was one of the components. The other is as I went to groups that were already in existence, um, the Lion's Den being one, um, Praxis being another, these are groups of um investors, of companies, um, of thought leaders who are all gathering together around this idea of redemptive impact and redemptive businesses. And there really wasn't that funding mechanism that was set up at the time. And so that it was just a need. And yeah, it's hard work, but thankfully I've got two co-founders who are fantastic. A friend of mine that I met front met at business school and another friend who's here in Dallas. And um, that was really the catalyst, those two guys, and helped us, you know, really move forward. So this is what I do day to day, but they're just such a um a blessing to me. And so that was a big piece of what got us started.

How Ambassadors has evolved

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Well, and it's I mean, it's clearly worked out pretty well. I looking at the stats on the website. I mean, 27 million over the last eight years deployed into 60 plus businesses. I mean, that's incredible track record. Talk, talk about like how how the group has evolved and kind of shaped, right? You you had that origin season. What's changed about ambassadors since then and what's the same?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, I think for us, um, there have been a couple of changes. One is we were focused only on operating companies. And whenever you have an ideological uh lens, it's going to filter out a number of companies that don't fit it, whatever that um rubric is.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

It's an amazing like flag detector, right? In in the venture world, we're always looking for what's the red flag, the reason to say no. And any ideological lens provides pretty explicit go-no-go screenings early on, which is fantastic and super focused, but also I would imagine like limits your pool of potential opportunities.

Why Ambassadors began investing in funds

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, it does. And so as you start to reduce that, uh, you recognize um number one, you're gonna have a smaller pool, and we fund about seven percent or historically seven percent, which is in line with what I understand from the Angel Capital Association. A lot of angel groups are funding about 6% of what they see. So we fund about 7%. But one gap we noticed is there were a number of funds that were starting to get uh you know started. They were fundraising, and they would come to us and say, would you ever consider a venture fund? And at first we said, no, we don't do that. And then we realized uh our members would appreciate the diversification, and there's a um learning actually that comes from funding funds. And so that's what we started to do, and now about half of our capital is invested in fund structures of some sort, real estate funds, venture funds, et cetera. And um, so that was a big shift for us. And we have a separate funds evaluation process that we um have in place, and one of our directors have built that. We've kind of reduced the ILPA down to something that's accessible for um basically the dollar amount that we invest. So that that was a change. I would say the Can you define ILPA just before you move on? Can you define ILPA? Yeah, it's uh yeah,

The fund evaluation process

SPEAKER_00 13:01

sorry, the institutional LP Association or Limited Partner Association has an assessment tool. And so we've taken that and scoped it down because ultimately, um, and uh later on I'd love to talk a little bit about our screening process, how we think about the financial or the just raw numbers and return side, and then also the spiritual impact side and how we think about that. But we uh so we built that, and that is really helpful. Our members really

How analysts strengthen diligence

SPEAKER_00 13:30

enjoy it. Uh they like the stable returns, diversification, et cetera. Um, the other thing that we grew into is the use of analysts uh who are private equity professionals who want to volunteer their time. They pay a very nominal fee to be part of the membership, and then they are our um interface with the CEOs. They help us with deal memos, they construct a lot of them, and that provides this mentorship that is really amazing uh both to them, but I would say the unexpected thing is they bring a lot of energy to the room. Now we cap the number to 10, so we we keep the number of analysts small and we tend to rotate them out over a two-year period to kind of keep things fresh. Uh, but these are you know 40-year-old men and women who are younger who are private equity for professionals, and just what they bring to the table, the energy they bring to the room has been super encouraging.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

The fund angle is pretty interesting to me. That's not something I see from many groups. It seems like many angel groups are exclusively looking at operating companies, or they may have a fund internally, which deploys into different businesses and gives their members some exposure. But I don't often see investor groups that will actually have VCs or other types of fund strategies come come pitch. Why do you I mean you mentioned the diversification that's available immediately? Any other reasons why you think that that has become such a significant part of the group's activity

Why Ambassadors focuses on post-revenue companies

SPEAKER_01 15:05

in recent years?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I mean, there are a lot of funds, basically, that have started, which is you know, is uh surprising. They tend to also be a little more m mature. Um, so w our investing style is we we do invest in post-revenue companies only, so which is also a bit of a distinctive and it's a way that we de-risk the investment that we're making. But I would say there's been a volume of funds that are that are really compelling, and uh, and then that would be one of the reasons. Um, diversification, and um we also get to know them in the ecosystem. So there's a lot of deal sharing back and forth, and that relationship is synergistic, frankly, where we'll have a deal, share it with them, or most often they'll have a deal, share it with us. And so that's been uh really great as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

A quick note before we continue the conversation. Alongside the Diligent Observer podcast and newsletter, I also run an outsourced operations service specifically built to serve angel networks. My team handles things like initial screening, social media, newsletter prep, platform management, and a whole lot more. The kinds of things that either aren't getting done or shouldn't be done by busy community leaders. If that sounds interesting to you, send me a note. Now, back to it.

How Ambassadors evaluates fund investments

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Well, you you mentioned that the process is pretty different, and that would make sense to me because a fund is a very different kind of an investment vehicle than an operating company. Um I guess give me just a little more color on how that works and how the team does that analysis, how the investors you know process that. Because it seems to me like a fund investment is much more relational, right? You got to get to know the partners, really understand their horror, their strategy, their track record. Is that like how do you do that on a consistent basis in an angel group, which has very limited diligence capabilities typically?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

We have a team, so we we have a paid team that uh does a lot of the work to just keep the trains running on time. And then the analysts are fantastic, and so they invest their time. A number of them work also for funds, right? So they're in the private equity space, so they have an insight there. Um, the other is that scope-down application process, and the way we do an application is probably similar to a lot of angel groups where you do an initial pass, is it a potential fit? If so, we go to a deeper level. Um, and then the other thing, we will do a little bit of a video spot. So most of our pitches are in person, but we do have a virtual option available. And so that's another way that we'll get funds uh through the process as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Super interesting and just fun to think about the different ways that groups work. I mean, it's really, really encouraging. Um, I'd love to hear a little bit more about sort of this tension. Anytime we're looking at a looking at investing through an ideological lens, there's this question of, you know, okay, are we comfortable sacrificing returns for some other outcome, right? ESG outcomes, you know, particular other benefits. Like

Returns versus impact in faith-driven investing

SPEAKER_01 18:20

how do you guys think about that tension, right? Because it it's there for sure in any ideological space. How do you all think about that, given the Christian lens with which you're evaluating opportunities?

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Before I answer that, I will say that there is a group of investors that actually would argue those companies that are faith-led have better returns than those that don't. And I don't want to camp out on it long, but I do want to cite uh there was a study. Now it's from 2012, so it's kind of ancient at this point. Um, but it's by a CEO forum called C12 Group, and it's uh Christian CEOs, and they look at the growth of those companies versus secular companies, and over this time period 95 to 2005 is when they did the study, they saw that annual revenue grew 3.6 times more or uh greater than um secular companies, and profits grew 2.6 times. Again, I you know, and so some people will cite that and say, no, actually what we're doing is we're getting better returns by investing. Um, I mean, the danger there is there are a lot of dangers there, but and and so I I don't want to camp out on that, but I do want to identify that because there are groups who would argue against what I'm about to say, and that is that when you invest with an ideological lens, there are times where it's gonna cost you. You're gonna maybe do things, let's say you're underwriting environmental um or companies that are thoughtful uh environmentally. Maybe they're not gonna dump, they're gonna have to pay for that, or they're gonna have a better filtering system, a bag house on their facility that'll filter out things that are gonna be, you know, uh not manual or not uh legislated, but they're gonna do it because it's better for the environment.

Why Ambassadors uses two separate scorecards

SPEAKER_00 20:13

So um so in our case, uh we we try to separate these two things. Um we separate the financial return piece and we separate what we call the spiritual integration piece, and we measure those separately and we don't conflate them. Um and we recognize some of our members or investor members, they really are looking for this impact piece and they're willing to take a reduced return. And um, and then others are really about the return, but they also want to see the impact. And so that's that's why we separate it. And I would say there are companies that we invest in that have on paper, it looks like they're gonna have lower returns, but their impact is significant, and they're actually spending money on things, chaplains, et cetera, who maybe aren't gonna affect the bottom line. Or maybe they will affect the bottom line because they create a better culture, right? So there's a lot of debate on that.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah, I can imagine uh the intangibles here that that contribute. Say a little more about that uh screening and and sort of the process of like sussing that out within a business because I imagine there's a lot about this that's pretty soft, right? So how do you or that feels soft, you know, from first glance. How do you suss that out and you know put a score to something like this that that is often personal and and not explicitly included, you know, in the day-to-day operations of a business?

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yeah.

The financial return scorecard

SPEAKER_00 21:43

So on the financial side, you know, we do something that's very similar to probably a lot of groups. We score it separately, we look at the team, the market and strategy, defensibility, etc., the financial model, and then the deal terms. So those are the four areas we unpack those. We score. Each one of those they need to pass a minimum score for us to move forward in aggregate. And then on the spiritual integration side, which I think this underwriting or this concept can be applied to any kind of underwriting. And we score that separately. We don't conflate them, as I

How Ambassadors evaluates spiritual integration

SPEAKER_00 22:18

mentioned. And when you underwrite a non-financial impact, there are there's sort of a range, if you will, of how to think about it. On one end, you could say, let's say it's uh you want to underwrite uh women founders, for example. Obviously uh that is a fairly straightforward. Are they female? We're gonna underwrite that, or did they identify with a um particular belief structure, and you know, we will underwrite that. In our case, we're not underwriting solely based on that. We go to what I would say the next step is, and that is, is this uh biblical worldview integrated in with the business in some way? And um that's where we like to consider and actually score the companies. So we look at uh the values that they've documented internally or externally, and what is that, what have they written, you know, not just in the application, but what do they have that's a little bit of a touchstone about how they're gonna operate their business? The second would be the activities. What do they do that um demonstrates the love of Jesus? How do they do that internally? Do they provide time off? Do they have um uh chaplains internally? I mentioned that, that would be one option. Do they uh do things that care for the community in a way that actually might cost them money and uh and a lot of time and interest? Do they address social causes like anti-trafficking, which is something that our group um you know likes to invest in, anti-trafficking and and other causes that uh defend human dignity in life? And so those are some of those things, and we want to see what they're doing, how they're spending their money. And then lastly, does the product or service in some way just show and share about who Jesus is in uh you know, in a way that is accessible to others? So one of the apps we invested in or a company we invested in is called Abide. It's a Christian meditation app. Uh the CEO would uh tell me that he puts more people to sleep with the Bible every day than anyone else, because a lot of people would just turn on some uh scriptural meditation and then fall to sleep, fall asleep to it. It's very comforting. Um, so

Avoiding hypocrisy and unhealthy workplace dynamics

SPEAKER_00 24:29

that would be an example of one where the product is very evident. That's not always the case. The other thing we we want to make sure we avoid is someone who is proclaiming or um, I guess, promoting Christianity, but not living out the practices. And, you know, that's the most dangerous thing, I think, with any ideology or belief system is the hypocrisy that I think a lot of people might sense there. And so we've done uh studies, we've funded studies for companies to analyze how does the team feel that the manager or the leadership is living out their Christian beliefs. And so that's been really helpful. We do like to underwrite that or fund those kinds of studies. The other thing is never hiring or firing based on faith, right? I mean, that's something we never want to see. Uh we want to love all people and we want our founders, fund managers, et cetera, uh, to do the same. So anyway, those are a few pieces. But of and then I would say the next step of intentionality is outcomes measurement. And you see this more in the environmental or if you're funding um education, you want to see how many students are we graduating, what's the impact that we have? And so um, we don't do that, I think, because uh that leads to challenges and unintended consequences when you're talking about some sort of spiritual impact, but we're really looking um at the activities that the company is doing.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

So it sounds like this screener, this framework is pretty flexible. It's not like a do they check this box, that box, and the other box? It's more of like, are these basic elements present? And these elements can be found in a variety of creative ways. Is that is that accurate or is it more you know, checkbox?

SPEAKER_00 26:19

No, it's not checkbox. And and I think anyone who's an investor, that's sort of like you're like, oh, I want my diligence checklist, I'm gonna work through this. Um, in our case, we don't want to prescribe in an entrepreneur's environment, given his or her motivations, his like her gifting, you know. I mean, what what what are her passions? Um, the context, the employees, we don't want to dictate that. We think that that is tone-deaf, uh, frankly, and and it puts us in a position that I don't think we should be in. We do want to hear from them how do they do this? Um, and and we do have on our website a spiritual um practices guide that they can read, could pray over that, and could think of what what uh ways do other entrepreneurs do it that I might want to adopt, but we don't prescribe it. Now, that said, if they respond and they say, here's how we, here's how I implement it, it may not resonate with our members, and we'll let them know that in advance. So we do use their answers to figure out whether they might be a good investment candidate, but we also uh try not to prescribe it because we think that can lead to you know bad outcomes, basically.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

I mean, it's fascinating to think about sort of this matching process of trying to find investors that care about the specific set of outcomes that are sort of variable, like it's a loosely defined framework on both on both sides. Yeah. And so how like I know you mentioned earlier that this hit rate concept is really important for you all. And I think that makes sense for many um what we'll call traditional angel networks where there's no investment vehicle. It's it's truly a marketplace where people come and if you like it, then they can invest. And if not, then they pass. Say more about how over time you've gotten a better pulse on like what the members want to see, given the semi-qualitative nature of this sort of scoring uh framework.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

It evolves over time as you get to know your membership. Early on, we launched a assessment or you know, just a survey to say what's important to you? How do you think about it? How do you think about returns versus impact, all of that? And there were some areas that were more interesting to others, but surveys are one thing. It's are people engaged? Are they actually investing? And then once they invest, do they spend time with that entrepreneur and do they kind of stick around? And you know, after years, now that we, you know, we've had several years under our belt seeing the patterns, we have a pretty good sense of what will or won't um fit with our network members. Every once in a while we'll have a company come in and we'll do a kind of one-off, like, oh, I know Joe likes these kinds of companies. I don't think the network will, and we'll make an intro to them, or I will ask to if we can make the intro and do it. Um, but for the most part, we just keep digging in and asking the questions. That's where the analysts, where the team, where I will get on the phone and just talk through it with the entrepreneur because what we ask is very unusual, um, right? For an entrepreneur, sometimes they're like, yeah, I didn't expect these questions. Like what?

The question founders do not expect

SPEAKER_01 29:36

What like what's an example of a question that people are typically weirded out by?

SPEAKER_00 29:39

I I think um there's a concept. So when you say what activities within your business do you do that show and share about Jesus might be a question, like then you know, on the application.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Um and they're like nobody nobody's accelerator is getting them prepped to answer that question from the the investor.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

They're like, hang on, what's this? And and and immediately if they've been around the block as a Christian, I think they're like, hang on, are we bean counting whatever conversion? You know, are we what are we doing here? That's number one. And number two, hey, what are you assessing what I believe? Are you assessing my sanctification level, my spirituality? Um, and the answer to both of those is no, no, no, we're not doing that. What we're trying to understand is to what degree do you have a way to bless people and you know, if if desired, if if appropriate, you know, share about this message that we think is a really good worldview and map for the world. Um and that question is one that's tough to ask. It's just really hard to ask. And um, and it's been I've had wonderful calls with people that are not um, I mean, just operators that are you know have uh don't have a faith lens or one that at least at least is Christian. And I we have wonderful conversations. You know, they have a worldview, I have a worldview, and I respect what they're doing. If they're not a fit, we refer them to other networks. And so we've certainly done that. So anyway, it's I in my opinion, because I like talking about it, it's a fun conversation, but I know it can be uncomfortable for people, and I want to respect that if it is.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

So yeah. So say more about what you see next for this ecosystem. I mean, a a decade or two ago, to your point, earlier there was pretty much nobody investing with this kind of Christian lens in mind, plenty of donation, charitable activity, but little to nothing on the for-profit investment angle. It's been a decade or two of growth in that, and ambassadors has clearly been a part of helping develop this theme, let's call it. What do you see as sort of the next evolution or next season for uh this ecosystem? Like where's the energy? What where do you see things changing and growing? Like, where else do you get excited as you look towards the next few years?

What comes next for faith-driven investing

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Yeah, I I would say a thought leader that I respect very highly uh is Praxis, which is uh out of New York. And they have a very um what I would say is uh both aspirational uh vision and one that's inclusive. They talk about redemptive entrepreneurship and redemptive investing, and they have a number of playbooks on how to do it, and they highlight the power dynamics between investors and operators, which I think is really important in one of their playbooks uh called Redemptive Investing. Um they run a number of companies, 24 uh companies through their accelerator on an annual basis, and they really invest in these entrepreneurs in a way that I would say is next level. Um, they invest in investors as well, uh, in a capital uh fellowship cohorts where um investors can think about how they're stewarding their capital or managing uh but uh Christianese for how do we manage um our capital. And their perspective is one that's very they're humble um thought leaders. So that would be one. They've they've continued to grow, and my goodness, they're um uh they've they've just scaled a lot. Sovereign's capital is one that I mentioned already. They have a flourished fund ETF, they're growing um you know by leaps and bounds, I think in a in a very um thoughtful way. Faith-driven investor is another one that um got founded kind of just before we did in in 2018, but has scaled dramatically. It's it's worldwide, and it allows those who are curious about faith-driven investing to jump into um little folk uh foundation groups, so it's uh pretty intimate settings, and they also help entrepreneurs think about it. And they just launched uh faith-driven teens, so helping teens think through how do I integrate my faith into the work that I'm gonna do, whatever that is. So uh those would be a few. There are um the Lion's Den groups, these are groups that are shark tank type groups, but of course it's Christians, so Lion's Den. And um, and those are some great groups. Uh there's Redemptive Real Estate, which is focused on uh real estate. Uh I just talked to a group this morning called Startup Garage, uh, which is a great group that's um that really focuses on the early, early stage concept stage startups, uh, and they're starting to grow across a number of different colleges. And so anyway, that's that's a fun group to know about as well. So what I would leave you with on this is once you find one piece of the ecosystem, there's so many connections, so many funds, and um, it's a pretty exciting time, I

Stewarding capital with humility

SPEAKER_00 35:04

would say. Um I think of the the the challenge for us is to make sure that we kind of know our lanes, right, and play well together, which I think we do. Um and then also just remember kind of I don't know, just remember that our focus is to really steward this capital and fund these entrepreneurs in a way that um should be a humble disposition, or we should be we should recognize uh where we are as funders because there's a power dynamic that sometimes can be um difficult for the founders. Um but at the same time we want to be good investors. We're we're not doing this isn't charity, right? And so we do want to make sure that when we're looking at terms and uh legal documents, that uh these aren't bad deals. Um and so that's that's a dynamic that's you know hard uh sometimes, especially if you have a founder or an operator who's not maybe doing the right thing, and that can be really challenging.

The risk of ideology in business

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Well, one question I just maybe a tension that I I feel some in the audience may have is you know, anytime we blend any religion with government or or you know, church and state, right? Keeping them separate, anytime you blend sort of religious ideology with a um broader thing like business world and and government, it it can make people nervous because it just feels like there's a lot of opportunity for uh may abuse maybe is not the right word, but like for that ideology to overwhelmingly shape the day-to-day in the environment, which it wasn't necessarily designed for. Like speak to that tension. Do you think that's real? And if so, like how would you address that from uh from this lens?

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Uh I think it's real. Um, I think it comes down to that founder um in the management team. All of us can be in environments in which if you're not part of the club, whatever the club, whatever the prevailing ideology is, uh you're not gonna get promoted. Um, you're not gonna thrive, and you're always gonna feel a little on the outside.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

So it's like if I don't go to Bible study, then I'm not gonna get promoted. So I gotta show up.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

If you don't support this politician, if you drive a particular car that was possible, you know, once popular, not unpopular, you know, I mean, there it's all over the map. So there are ideologies. I think when you when the leader of an organization is very um identifies strongly with an ideology, in this case a religious ideology, um, the the question immediately is are they gonna accept me for who I am, for what I'm doing, and for uh what I bring to this work? And that's where someone who is strong in their ideology, whether it be faith, political, et cetera, says, yes, you I I care for you, uh, you're important to me, you're important to this company, and I'm not going to um in some way put you on the outside because you believe differently than I do. And that's really important. That's why I really like these studies where you you assess how does the staff feel, hear from everyone, and then see if it's working. And we saw this at Marketplace Chaplains. I mean, the really good CEOs that implement chaplains, they would sometimes they would just call them care teams. And it's not um, it's really just the chaplain's role is to listen to care. They're motivated by their faith, but they're not pushing it. And um, I think that is sort of the best of all worlds, um, whatever your ideology, right? Because then you won't disenfranchise someone and then they say, Oh, I don't want to be that because you're playing favorites when you shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Will final thoughts you would leave our audience with on the topic of you know investing with a Christian lens, ambassadors, impact network, your journey, anything else that we've talked about so far that you'd be sad we didn't cover by the end.

Final thoughts on investing through a Christian lens

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Well, thank you for having me. I I would say that all of us in some way have a framework or ideology or some way that we think the world is going to operate in a better way. And I think it's important that we um consider whether we should invest to underwrite those. I think most of us will give, I guess nationally, 2.6% of income is given. So we're not like the most generous of people, kind of as a as a country sometimes. But um, I would say that this is one way to influence the world for good, whatever your version of good is, right? So um, and then how you do that, how you determine what the minimum underwriting standard is for whatever that influence that you want to have is, um, is good to um articulate and write down and fine-tune, which we've done. We've been forced to do that, and and I'm glad we have. Um, the other is obviously if if if you're listening to this and you think, hey, I like the idea of joining a network of people who are investing with this in mind and they want to bless people, entrepreneurs, fund managers in this way, then would love to talk to them. And then lastly, if you're an entrepreneur or a fund manager and you're like, I didn't even know this existed, um, check us out, check any of the other groups that I mentioned out. Um, because there's there's a whole community that is here to support you. So you can find all that at ambassadorsimpact.com. And um, that's it. Andrew, thank you for all you're doing. Really appreciate it, and it's fun to be here.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Thanks for joining. Well, this was a blast, and I look forward very much to our next conversation.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

All right. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Diligent Observer. I'm your host, Andrew. And if you're an angel investor looking for essential angel intel in five minutes every week, I think you'd enjoy my newsletter. I'd send my best stuff, interesting deals, and more straight to your inbox so you never miss a thing. Subscribe today at thediligentobserver.com.